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Podcast invitation
Become a guest. Let your voice be heard!
This is a short audio invite for podcast guests. If you’re interested, please schedule a short pre-recording call here.
Be a guest on the Good Comms podcast!
Are you passionate about inclusive leadership, belonging at work, and social good? If so, I’d love to invite you—or someone you know—to be a guest on the Good Comms podcast!
Who I’m looking for:
- Inspiring leaders who champion inclusion and belonging
- Changemakers driving social impact
- Experts with actionable insights on leadership, equity, and communication
What we’ll talk about:
- How to create cultures of belonging
- How to lead inclusively and drive positive social impact
- How to use inclusive communication to drive positive social change
If you have a story, research, or practical strategies to share, let’s make it happen!
How to join:
- Email me at chared@goodcomms.nl
- Connect with me on LinkedIn or Instagram
- Schedule a call here
Let’s collaborate and share your story with our growing community. Together, we can spark meaningful change!
[00:00:00] Hi, it’s Chared here, host of the Good Comms podcast. If you’re someone who’s passionate about inclusive leadership, belonging at work, and social good, I’d love to invite you or someone you know to join as a guest on the show. I’m looking for inspiring leaders, change makers, and experts who have stories, insights, or actionable ideas to share with our audience.
[00:00:38] Whether it’s about creating belonging at work, driving social impact, or leading inclusively, your voice can help spark meaningful conversations. If you’d like to join me, or know someone who would, visit goodcomms.nl to submit your details or email me directly at chared@goodcomms.nl you can also connect with me on LinkedIn or Instagram.
[00:01:05] I’m so excited to collaborate with amazing individuals and share your story with our growing community. Together, we can inspire change and create a sense of belonging everywhere. Thanks for listening and I hope to hear from you soon.
— 01
Episode 1
On purpose, inclusive leadership and belonging at work
Over the years, people have often called me a “story collector.” As a former journalist, I wear that title proudly. This podcast is an extension of that. Read the full blogpost here.
Episode 1: On purpose, inclusive leadership & belonging at work
Welcome to the first episode of The Good Comms Podcast!
Inclusive leadership isn’t about titles—it’s about behaviors that foster belonging, equity, and inclusion in our workplaces. But what does that look like in action?
In this episode, I explore:
- What inclusive leadership really means
- Why it’s essential in today’s diverse, dynamic, and dispersed world
- The ACES framework – four key elements of belonging at work (Authenticity, Care, Empowerment, Support)
- Practical ways to start leading inclusively today
Episode highlights & timestamps
[00:00:00] Introduction – Why I started The Good Comms Podcast
[00:02:11] About Me – From journalism to inclusive leadership
[00:03:51] Defining Inclusive Leadership – It’s about behaviors, not titles
[00:04:35] Why Inclusive Leadership Matters – The business and human case
[00:08:21] Introducing the ACES Framework – 4 elements of belonging at work
[00:11:20] How to Start Leading Inclusively – Practical steps you can take today
Resources & links
🔗 Listen & subscribe: https://goodcomms.podbean.com/
🔗 Connect with me on LinkedIn
🔗 Visit my website: goodcomms.nl
Let’s build thriving cultures and impactful futures together.
[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the Good Comms podcast, the podcast where we explore the power of inclusive leadership and communication and shine a light on individuals who are committed to creating a sense of belonging and building a better, more equitable world.
[00:00:37] I’m your host, Chared Verschuur, Inclusive Leadership and Communication Consultant, and I’m thrilled to have you join me for this very first episode.
[00:00:46] In this episode, I will share with you the purpose of this podcast, a bit about me, what inclusive leadership means, a quick guide to belonging at work, and what you can expect in the next episodes.
[00:00:58] Let’s start with why I started this podcast. Over the years, underrepresented individuals have naturally gravitated to me to share their stories, even when I wasn’t seeking them out. One of my peers once called me the “story collector”. As a previous journalist, it’s a title I wear proudly. This podcast is an extension of that.
[00:01:23] It’s about highlighting the inspiring work being done by individuals who might not always have the platform they deserve. And in a time when negative news, divisive narratives, and bullish forms of leadership seem to dominate, I wanted to create something positive and hopeful. A space where we not only celebrate those already making positive change, but also learn actionable insights from them. So that, hopefully, there will be more of them in the world.
[00:01:53] As Jeffrey Pfeffer wrote in his book The Seven Rules of Power, “If you want power to be used for good, more good people need to have power,” and that’s a world I’m hoping to help create. And isn’t that what we need more of right now? Leaders who use their power for good?
[Music up]
[00:02:11] And now, let me tell you a bit about me. Before I went into consulting, I worked in the publishing and media industry in the Philippines. A move to the Netherlands in 2007 allowed me to explore the field of communication. I spent many years in external communication, and ultimately found meaning in internal communication. I love working in the intersection of culture, values, community, and purpose, which are often experiencing change, crisis, or in need of clarity, and whose success or failure all boils down to a question of leadership.
[00:02:56] One of the most defining experiences I’ve had as in- house communication professional was being bullied at work. It reflected a toxic workplace culture that failed to prioritize a sense of belonging and dignity at work. That experience pushed me to question, how can we create workplace environments where individuals feel safe, seen, heard, and valued?
[00:03:21] This questioning eventually led me to research the concept of belonging at work. I wanted to understand what it takes to move beyond toxicity and create spaces where people can truly thrive. That research became the foundation of my work today.
[00:03:41] And that’s another purpose of this podcast. To show that inclusive leadership is something anyone can do. Who are inclusive leaders? You might ask.
[00:03:51] They create a sense of belonging across all forms of diversity and ultimately they create a more just, more representative, and less polarized world. It’s not easy, and doesn’t happen by accident, but there are no titles required, only the willingness to learn, the courage and patience to practice, and the humility to accept that you will not always get it right.
[00:04:17] At its core, inclusive leadership is about being intentional, noticing who’s being left out, listening to diverse perspectives, taking action to ensure everyone has the tools, opportunities, and support they need to succeed.
[00:04:34] Why does it matter?
[00:04:35] Because we live in a world that is more diverse, dynamic and dispersed than ever before, leaders who embrace inclusion are better equipped to navigate these complexities. The benefits are clear. Inclusive teams are more innovative, productive and engaged. Organizations with inclusive leaders are more likely to attract and retain top talent.
[00:04:59] Inclusive leadership can feel overwhelming if you don’t know where to start. But it doesn’t have to be. My job in this podcast is to give you the tools, frameworks, research findings, good examples, so you can practice inclusive leadership yourself.
[00:05:16] When we come back from our short break, I will share with you some findings from my research on workplace belonging and the four elements that create a sense of belonging at work. This will be the first tool I’m going to share in this podcast. So for now, I will turn up the music, which is created by my husband, while you get your pen and paper or digital notebook if that’s your preference.
[Music break]
[00:05:40] Welcome back from our short music break. I hope you liked it. Got your writing materials? Let’s dive right in.
[00:06:11] So here’s what we know from research.
[00:06:14] Individuals who feel a sense of belonging at work are less likely to leave their jobs. They’re also more engaged, more productive, and more innovative. If you like to go into the numbers, a study found that a sense of belonging at work leads to a 56 percent increase in job performance, a 50 percent reduction in turnover risk, and a 75 percent decrease in employee sick days.
[00:06:39] Beyond these numbers, inclusion and belonging are about something bigger. They’re about creating spaces where people can be their full authentic selves, where they don’t have to hide parts of who they are to fit in because, apparently, 60 percent of employees cover or hide parts of their true selves at work.
[00:07:01] And what happens then? Can you think of the last place you inhabited where you felt a sense of belonging? Where were you and how did you feel? Did you feel like contributing more? And now think of a place where you were excluded. Where were you and how did you feel? Did you feel paralyzed? Did not want to contribute? Or would like to leave?
[00:07:40] This is also what happens in the workplace. Employees who don’t feel a sense of belonging reported more sick days and could not do their best work even if they wanted to. Actually, those I interviewed who had low levels of a sense of belonging left their jobs within a month after I interviewed them.
[00:08:01] On the contrary, employees who felt accepted for who they are, felt like doing more and could contribute all of their skills and all of their talents. And in a world that is dynamic, diverse, digital, and dispersed. Isn’t this exactly what we need?
[00:08:21] Another highlight of my research are the four elements of Belonging at Work. These are Authenticity, Care, Empowerment, and Support. Together, they form the ACES framework for Belonging at Work. These four elements are actionable, and I will take you through each of them.
[00:08:41] The first element of the framework is authenticity. Being real, even when it’s hard. People don’t connect with perfection. They connect with honesty. As a leader or a teammate, authenticity means showing up as yourself in a way that allows others to do the same. I’ve learned that authenticity can be created in spontaneous interactions, such as meeting each other at the water cooler. But it can also be designed in what I called ‘teaming events’ in my research. Team sessions using the Lego Serious Play methodology are a great way to encourage authenticity at work. If you’re interested in bringing this to your team, do reach out.
[00:09:25] The second element of the framework is care. Showing people they matter. Care isn’t about grand gestures. It’s about small, consistent acts. Check in with someone on your team who seems quiet. Remember someone’s birthday, or a milestone in their life. These moments create a sense of belonging. Flowers, handwritten cards, or welcome packs for new team members are tangible ways to show that you care.
[00:09:52] The third element of the framework is empowerment. Giving people the tools to shine. Empowerment is about creating opportunities for others to thrive. It could be a training program. Allowing them to work flexible hours. Giving them autonomy or the right computer software. It’s asking, what do you need to succeed? And then acting on it. Empowerment shows people that you trust them and see their potential.
[00:10:19] The fourth element of the framework is support. According to 90 percent of those I interviewed, their sense of belonging is connected with their relationship with their managers. In short, if their relationship was positive, they had a high sense of belonging. Those who experienced their relationship as negative had low sense of belonging scores. So if you’re a team leader or people manager, how visible are you? Does your team know where and how to reach you when they encounter a challenge? It’s not about fixing everything, it’s about being there for them and having their back. It’s also about having regularity of experience, like regular one on ones. And making sure that those experiences are positive.
[00:11:05] Authenticity, Care, Empowerment, and Support. Four actionable elements that can transform how you lead. You don’t have to do it all at once. Start small, choose one area this week to focus on, and let it grow from there.
[00:11:20] For more on the ACES framework, visit goodcomms.nl and download my free guide. Once you’ve tried it, let me know how it went. I’d love to hear from you.
[00:11:31] In the upcoming episodes, you can expect a mix of solo and interview episodes where you will meet leaders, changemakers, and experts who are already practicing inclusive leadership, creating a sense of belonging, and championing positive social impact. If you are one of them, please reach out. We’d love to hear your voice here.
[00:11:52] Thank you for joining me on this first episode of the Good Comms podcast. If you find it helpful, please subscribe, leave a review, or share it with someone who cares about creating a more inclusive future. If it sparked your curiosity about the work I do, I’d love for you to connect with me on LinkedIn or visit my website at goodcomms. nl for more information. You may also send me a message through chared at goodcomms.nl.
[00:12:22] Let’s continue the conversation and keep building thriving cultures and impactful futures together. Until next time, remember, inclusive leadership can be learned, and it starts with you. This is Chared Verschuur, podcasting for Good Comms.#
— 02
Episode 2
On conscious business with Anabel Dumlao, Axialent
What does it mean to lead with consciousness and inclusivity? In this episode of Good Comms, I sit down with Anabel Dumlao, Partner at Axialent, to explore the essence of conscious business—how organizations can align values with actions to create cultures of authenticity, belonging, and impact. Read the full blogpost here.
Title: On conscious business with Anabel Dumlao
Guest: Anabel Dumlao, Partner at Axialent
Episode overview:
What does it take to lead with consciousness and inclusion? In this episode, I sit down with Anabel Dumlao, an expert in conscious business, cultural transformation, and leadership development, to explore how leaders can build authentic and inclusive workplaces.
We also dive into the Filipino concept of kapwa, or shared identity and interconnectedness, and how it influences leadership and belonging in organizations.
Key topics & takeaways:
- What conscious business really means and why it’s crucial for leadership
- The biggest barriers to creating cultures of belonging in organizations
- How to move beyond performative allyship and embed real inclusion in leadership
- Why vulnerability is essential in fostering inclusive teams
- How Kapwa plays a role in leadership and cultural transformation
- Practical steps leaders can take today to create a more inclusive environment
Memorable quotes:
“You can’t work on promoting conscious business while being an unconscious human.” – Anabel Dumlao
“What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson (shared by Anabel)
“When you accept that you don’t have all the answers and that’s okay, then you open up to listen and you really listen to understand.” – Chared Verschuur
Resources & links:
🔗 Connect with Anabel on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anabeldumlao/
🔗 Learn more about Axialent: https://www.axialent.com/
🎧 Listen now: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-dvuqk-181bfd6
If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who cares about creating a more inclusive future!
[00:00:00] Chared Verschuur: Hello, and welcome to the Good Comms podcast, the podcast where we explore the power of inclusive leadership and communication and shine a light on individuals who are committed to creating a sense of belonging and building a better, more equitable world. I’m your host, Chared Verschuur, inclusive leadership and communication consultant, and I’m thrilled to welcome Annabelle Dumlau, partner at Axialent, known for her expertise in conscious business, cultural transformation, and leadership development.
[00:00:51] Together, we’ll discuss how leaders can inspire authenticity, create belonging, and lead inclusively. We’ll also explore the Filipino concept of kapwa, a unique perspective on shared identity and interconnectedness, and its relevance to leadership and belonging. Annabelle, welcome to the podcast.
[00:01:11] Anabel Dumlao: Thank you so much for having me here.
[00:01:14] Chared Verschuur: Can you tell us more about yourself?
[00:01:16] Anabel Dumlao: I was born and raised in Manila, Philippines, by a Filipino father and a Spanish mother. My birth language was Spanish. We moved permanently to Spain in 1986 with people power and all that. I pursued higher education to study law, business administration and economics. That paved the way to me landing quite quickly a job in a consulting firm as management skills training consultant. I started at Ernst Young. And there met one of the current partners of Axialent. So Axialent was in the making for 20 plus years.
[00:01:58] I started there developing management training courses and evolved to the neighboring practices in HR, broadening the HR consulting spectrum. I moved because of an acquisition. EY’s consulting arm was acquired by a firm whose main business was technology. I was not into HR technology. I was for the people side of things. I was fortunate enough to encounter Hewitt Associates. They were all and only about HR. I learned so much. Now another merger came along and we were acquired this time by an insurance broker. Totally different model. The business itself was different from where I saw myself thriving. And I jumped ship again. Because of culture. And because I felt I didn’t belong.
[00:02:49] Chared Verschuur: Where did you see yourself thriving?
[00:02:51] Anabel Dumlao: In the people side. From the get go, I was about people, and that carried me throughout my entire career, everything I enjoy, where I thrive and where I provided value was in connection with people. So a manager when I was a trainee at EY was at Axialent already and he kept asking so how are you, and I’m working at a place where I believe you will belong, you’re gonna love this type of work. I really am very thankful that he insisted. He was aggressively recruiting me to Axialent and I was the one holding back. I was skeptical. It just sounded too good to be true, but we found a way. I’m there since eight years already.
[00:03:32] Chared Verschuur: So how does Axialent’s approach to leadership and cultural transformation align with your personal values?
[00:03:38] Anabel Dumlao: Axialent is about conscious business. We’re on a mission to raise consciousness in the world of business in particular. AXIA comes from Greek and it means values. It means value in economical sense of the word and also in moral sense of the world. The ethical part of values. And then, LENT is borrowed from the word ‘excellent’. The greatest standard of life as a person as a collective and as a business. So for me, the name itself is a great summary of how Axialent it really is. A cry of hope that the world of work, that doing business can be good and is a force for good.
[00:04:20] Chared Verschuur: What excites you most about your work in fostering conscious businesses?
[00:04:25] Anabel Dumlao: It’s that it’s not a perpetual honeymoon. This is not an easy job. It’s beautiful, it’s inspiring, it’s motivating, but it’s not easy. The inspiration is that it’s real and it’s embracing your humanity, flaws and all, and still find joy and pursue purpose. So for me, it’s like grounded idealism.
[00:04:45] Chared Verschuur: Can we say that what excites you is that it remains challenging?
[00:04:48] Anabel Dumlao: It requires me to actually keep doing the work for myself so I can be of service to others. You can’t work promoting conscious business by being an unconscious human. So it keeps me on my toes and doing the work . Doesn’t mean that I don’t fall into those pockets of unconscious like behavior. By that I mean going on autopilot. Where you know, like I just react instead of choose my response. So when I get reactive, for instance, Hey, I’m human. But now I have the tools to catch myself and say, ” so now how do I become a little wiser?” And help others along the way.
[00:05:24] Chared Verschuur: How would you define inclusive leadership?
[00:05:27] Anabel Dumlao: For me, inclusive leadership are the mindsets and behaviors that allow companies, organizations, groups, that share a common purpose to actually make people feel in their bones that they belong there. It is a set of mindsets, because without the proper mindsets, you don’t behave inclusively. And set of behaviors that when leaders demonstrate those behaviors or display those behaviors, people observe those behaviors and understand the message that “you belong here. You are wanted here. This is a space for you to thrive, to be your best self.”
[00:06:04] Chared Verschuur: From your experience, what are the biggest challenges leaders face in creating cultures of belonging?
[00:06:10] Anabel Dumlao: It’s the stories in our heads that keeps saying over and over. I am totally equitable. We’re running a fair company here. That’s the main source that I’ve discovered is getting in the way of so many. I’m already fair. I’m a good person. I’m a grown up leader. I am not discriminating. I’m super inclusive. And given that story and I believe that, I will never ever critically examine my decisions or question, am I being biased in this particular instance? Because I’m great. See how that can get in the way of you all of a sudden deciding or weighing into a decision about hiring someone without realizing that position is biased, that your recommendation is biased, that slips through the cracks and all of a sudden you’re not contributing to a culture of inclusiveness and belonging.
[00:07:06] Chared Verschuur: So you’re saying that it’s our being convinced that we are good people that’s actually keeping us from doing the work.
[00:07:15] Anabel Dumlao: If you’re already done, it’s out of your mind. It’s about awareness. The key there is to distinguish and catch yourself.
[00:07:22] Chared Verschuur: Does vulnerability also play a part in your work then?
[00:07:26] Anabel Dumlao: Big part because that humility that you need to be curious, to seek understanding and letting go of the need to be right is super vulnerable. Being vulnerable is the bravest thing you can do. If we want to progress into a more inclusive workplace or world in general, we cannot assume that we’re going to get this right all the time. We’re going to slip back. We’re going to make mistakes. We’re going to say the wrong thing. We’re going to offend people. We need to come to terms with that. That it needs to get messy. And that’s just part of our human nature. So let’s just embrace our humanity and do a better job next time. Vulnerability is an important part of the equation. And again, I think there’s a misconception of vulnerability, oversharing and all that, and it takes consciousness to know what belongs to private life and what is conscious vulnerability, meaning we’re not perfect. Perfection does not exist. Let’s come to terms with that. The intention with which you are sharing is very important and making your intention explicit helps the other understand what to do with that. In the end, it’s your choice. Confidentiality, holding a safe space, is also so important in inclusive cultures.
[00:08:45] Chared Verschuur: We’re going into shared identity and interconnectedness. And in the Philippines there’s this concept of kapwa. Can you tell us more about how you see it influencing your work as a leader in inclusive spaces and conscious businesses?
[00:08:59] Anabel Dumlao: I love the term. It gave me a word to explain something so complex. One of my firm beliefs is that we are all connected with each other and to something greater than all of us together. That is the beautiful word kapwa. In hindsight as I was growing up and how I’m observing the Filipino workplace as I’m going back home to do more consulting work for Axialent, that’s there. You can feel it. It’s in our bones that we feel interconnected to each other. And at the same time, I experience our behaviors as pretty divisive sometimes how ironic. So it’s like this inner struggle that’s ingrained. We believe in kapwa and at the same time, I’m curious about what led us to behave in a classist society, in a hierarchical work situation. How do they co inhabit the same space? Like how does that work in unison? Could it also be similar to my torn identity? That’s my take on kapwa.
[00:10:04] Chared Verschuur: It’s interesting how you describe that, like it’s yin and yang. Being hierarchical and also believing that you’re interconnected with someone. Because if we were living to that value in the Philippines, there wouldn’t be corruption.
[00:10:16] Anabel Dumlao: Do they believe it as what I believe? Maybe they don’t. Maybe there are other ways to see it. But the thing is that I found a word to express what I believe is there. And that is causing a lot of, I don’t know, pain or frustration or friction. Because if that’s the underlying belief, and the leadership behaviors are different, that takes a toll. So what culture do you want? One that is in sync with the underlying values of a whole people? Those two layers of how we behave and what we truly value, I think there’s an opportunity there to get them closer together.
[00:10:52] Chared Verschuur: Can you share with us a case or success story that stands out as a powerful example of transformation and why that worked?
[00:11:02] Anabel Dumlao: I’d get a little more personal and share my own personal transformation. I basically grew up developing the muscle of wanting to fill the room because of what I lacked in size. And as a consultant, I had knowledge and skills so everything had the ingredients of reinforcing that, “hey, you have to be really knowledgeable”. I thought that if I didn’t show up knowledgeable, they wouldn’t hire me, my bosses wouldn’t promote me, I would not be staffed in the most interesting projects. So I developed a muscle of, “you have to know, you have to know a lot”, and then that came to the extreme of, ” you have to be the best”. And that little story influences your mindset and how you show up. And I showed up like that for a great part of my career. Sometimes it was good and sometimes it backfired. I went to the extreme opposite. It’s ” let’s be super humble “. I just shut up. Like all these stories that I replaced those other stories with and weren’t working either. None of the extremes were working. Using the tools of introspection, of learning getting feedback, making that feedback work for me. Truly believing it’s a present and not a dart. Being friends with my being an expert and holding my expertise lightly enough to be open to new perspectives. That’s my biggest transformation.
[00:12:30] Chared Verschuur: And isn’t that an example of inclusive leadership as well?
[00:12:34] Anabel Dumlao: It helps a lot because once you don’t have to have all the answers, you open up that people bring the answers from their perspectives. And it’s so much richer. I’ve seen things I did not see before? It’s natural. You’re only seeing your side of things and everybody else has multiple, like they’re looking from different points of view, it’s so much more comprehensive. It’s much more powerful when you have the collective insights.
[00:13:02] Chared Verschuur: That’s really wise because when you accept that you don’t have all the answers and that’s okay, then you open up to listen and then you really listen to understand. Why is the role of the leader in creating cultures of belonging or inclusion important?
[00:13:19] Anabel Dumlao: Because no matter what you do or what you say, everybody is looking at you to emulate what you’re doing. Your example is crucial, a very important source of the messages that people receive of what they have to be. So being very intentional about what you do speaks very loudly. There’s a beautiful quote of Ralph Waldo Emerson, ” what you do speak so loudly that I cannot hear what you say”. So it’s crucial that what you display as behaviors are inclusive behaviors, because that’s what people are going to be emulating.
[00:13:53] Chared Verschuur: If there are current leaders right now who would like to create inclusive teams, inclusive cultures, and a sense of belonging what is one impactful action that they can take?
[00:14:05] Anabel Dumlao: It starts from within. Check your intentions. Start with you. Start with ” How am I feeling about this whole thing? Why do I want an inclusive culture?” Take this luxury of being really honest with yourself and answer those questions earnestly. “What do I want to achieve? Why do I want this?” And find the most noble reason that will make you really want to go and actually do something. So for me, the first step is check your intention and what you want to achieve.
[00:14:36] Chared Verschuur: Thank you. Is there anything else you want to share with us?
[00:14:39] Anabel Dumlao: Let’s replicate these types of conversations. Let’s talk about it in a non adversarial way. That brings up our multiple truths. There’s no one truth. That’s another thing. So let’s exchange our views take it one step at a time.
[00:14:54] Chared Verschuur: And if they want to meet Anabel, where can they contact you?
[00:14:58] Anabel Dumlao: Anabel Dumlao is on LinkedIn so please feel free to reach out, connect, and if you like what you read or what I post, DM me. And if you’re in the Philippines, I’ll be there more often. I’m on a mission to raise the level of leadership to be more conscious leaders and build more constructive and inclusive cultures. So let me know I can drop by.
[00:15:20] Chared Verschuur: Thank you, Anabel, for that lovely conversation. In the upcoming episodes, you can expect a mix of solo and interview episodes where you will meet leaders, change makers, and experts who are already practicing inclusive leadership, creating a sense of belonging and championing positive social impact. If you are one of them, please reach out. We’d love to hear your voice here.
[00:15:44] Thank you for joining me on this episode of the Good Comms podcast. If you find it helpful, please subscribe, leave a review, or share it with someone who cares about creating a more inclusive future. If it sparked your curiosity about the work I do, I’d love for you to connect with me on LinkedIn or visit my website at goodcomms.nl for more information.
[00:16:05] You may also send me a message through chared@goodcomms.nl. Let’s continue the conversation and keep building thriving cultures and impactful futures together. Until next time, remember, inclusive leadership can be learned, and it starts with you. This is Chared Verschuur, podcasting for Good Comms.
— 03
Episode 3
On social sustainability with Karen Daniels, Ethical Edge
In the latest episode of The Good Comms Podcast, I had the privilege of speaking with Karen Daniels, founder of Ethical Edge Advisory and co-founder of Blue Earth ESG Technologies. With over 20 years of global leadership experience in procurement and supply chains for companies like Heineken, Diageo, and Shell, Karen knows the power organizations hold—and how that power can be used for good. Read the full story here.
Title: On social sustainability with Karen Daniels
Guest: Karen Daniels, Founder, Ethical Edge
Episode overview:
In this episode of The Good Comms Podcast, I sat down with Karen Daniels, founder of Ethical Edge Advisory and co-founder of Blue Earth. With over 20 years of global experience in procurement and supply chains, Karen shares powerful insights into inclusive leadership, social sustainability, and the systemic changes needed to create dignified work and equitable communities.
From transforming the role of brand promoters in Nigeria to leveraging technology and data for impact, this episode is full of practical takeaways and inspiration for purpose-driven leaders.
Key topics & takeaways:
- Karen’s journey from corporate to entrepreneurship
- Defining social sustainability and why it matters
- How inclusive leadership creates lasting social impact
- A powerful story of dignity and transformation in Nigeria
- Where to start if you’re new to social sustainability
- Practical metrics for inclusion and impact
- The role of informal networks and collective action
- Emerging trends in inclusive leadership and tech-enabled change
Memorable quotes:
“You don’t set out to be a leader. You set out to make a difference and then leadership follows.”
“Social sustainability is really about creating and maintaining conditions that support human well-being, equity and social progress.”
“Procurement is such a vital function within the organization because it connects the organization with the community.”
“Change like this, changing the whole ethos and dynamic of a role like that, takes leadership. It cannot be changed from the ground up. It has to come from the top down.”
“Would you let your daughter be a brand promoter? Absolutely not. And therefore, we had to change this perception.”
“Sustainability is not a choice. It is our ticket to the future.”
“Technology is absolutely an enabler and we should be using it to make that impact and to make the change.”
Resources & links:
🔗 Connect with Karen on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karen-daniels-38064021/
🔗 Learn more about Ethical Edge: https://www.ethicaledgeadvisory.com/
🎧 Listen now: https://goodcomms.podbean.com/e/on-social-sustainability-with-karen-daniels/
If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who cares about creating a more inclusive future!
On social sustainability with Karen Daniels
[00:00:00] Chared Verschuur (she/her): Hello and welcome to The Good Comms Podcast, the podcast where we explore the power of inclusive leadership and communication and shine a light on individuals who are committed to creating a sense of belonging and building a better, more equitable world.
[00:00:36] I’m your host Chared Verschuur, Inclusive Leadership and Communication Consultant, and I’m thrilled to have you join me for this episode.
[00:00:44] In this episode, I’m excited to welcome Karen Daniels, founder of Ethical Edge Advisory. Karen is a champion for inclusive leadership and social sustainability, with over 20 years of experience in global procurement and supply chains. Through her work, she’s demonstrated how leaders can foster equity and belonging while driving meaningful social impact.
[00:01:08] I’ve had the privilege of connecting with Karen through our Lean In group, and I’m thrilled to share her wisdom with you. In this episode, we’ll explore the connection between inclusive leadership and social sustainability. Practical tips for fostering equity in organizations and Karen’s vision for a future where business leads with purpose. Let’s dive in. Welcome, Karen.
[00:01:32] Karen Daniels (she/her): Hi Chared. Thank you. And I’m really excited to be on your podcast and thanks for having me.
[00:01:37] Chared Verschuur (she/her): Would you like to add anything else to that introduction? Tell us more about you.
[00:01:41] Karen Daniels (she/her): Thank you. As you said, I’m the founder of Ethical Edge, sustainable consultancy. Very recently, I’ve started a technical company, a B2B SaaS company called Blue Earth ESG Technologies. Before venturing into entrepreneurship , I’ve had a long career in corporate. I’ve had a lot of senior roles in procurement and supply chain for big multinationals like Shell, Diageo, and Heineken. I’ve worked across Africa and Asia Pacific Spent five years in Nigeria, in Lagos, heading up the procurement division for Heineken. I am also a mom of twins and I’m now living in the Netherlands with my partner and my children for the last five years.
[00:02:19] Chared Verschuur (she/her): So how have your global experiences shaped your leadership philosophy?
[00:02:24] Karen Daniels (she/her): There’s no one size fits all when it comes to leadership. I always believed that you have to meet people where they are and not where you at or where you’re coming from. And culture having worked across Africa and every country in Africa it’s completely different to the next. The culture is different. The people are different. And then having worked in Europe and at Asia Pacific, you find that culture is important and understanding the dynamics of culture in your team and the diverse nature of your team is key. For me, my philosophy is that you don’t set out to be a leader. You set out to make a difference and then leadership follows.
[00:03:06] Chared Verschuur (she/her): That sounds really inspiring. You set out to make a difference and then leadership follows.
[00:03:11] Karen Daniels (she/her): My goal was never to be a boss because being a manager is not the same as being a leader. If you inspire people, if you motivate them, if you help them to unlock their full potential, they naturally follow you. And that’s what makes a leader. I think.
[00:03:28] Chared Verschuur (she/her): And now you’re focusing on social sustainability. What inspired you to focus on social sustainability?
[00:03:35] Karen Daniels (she/her): I spent a lot of time working in developing countries across Africa and then also I spent a lot of time on the ground in Nigeria. From a procurement perspective, you get to see the community that you’re working in with through the suppliers. Procurement is such a vital function within the organization because it connects the organization with the community.
[00:03:55] I was confronted with the social inequalities on a daily basis with suppliers, with the communities, even with people coming in to look for work or opportunities, and even your own team that’s working for you. And I could see the difference corporates can make or that we could make as a corporate.
[00:04:12] Karen Daniels (she/her): We’ve got power. Corporates have power. They have power in the community. They have power, the governments in the countries that they are operating in. They have power as a collective if they come together and they can make real change happen. And they have the power to change lives. I saw that firsthand when we started to implement social sustainability initiatives and the power that we had to change lives and the impact that it had on people.
[00:04:37] Chared Verschuur (she/her): And how would you define it, social sustainability? Because when we talk about sustainability, we often talk about environmental sustainability and climate justice. How would you define social sustainability and what role does leadership play in advancing it?
[00:04:53] Karen Daniels (she/her): Social sustainability is really about creating and maintaining conditions that support human well being, equity and social progress. And how leaders play a role is that they shape organizational priorities. Leaders have the power to determine what the organizations are going to do and organizations on the whole are quite powerful. Especially if they come together. They are crucial in establishing organizational culture and engaging with stakeholders in other organizations and the community, and they can help influence the broader system.
[00:05:26] Chared Verschuur (she/her): Can you share a story or example where inclusive leadership supported social impact initiatives such as empowering local communities or improving workplace equity in your experience?
[00:05:38] Karen Daniels (she/her): Yes, I have quite a good example of that. When I was in Nigeria, we started the Social Sustainability Initiative. There was one particular group of people that we wanted to address, and that’s brand promoters. Brand promoters are the people that promote, our product in outlets, in restaurants, in bars. And we’re not the only ones who have brand promoters. All beverage manufacturers have brand promoters. It’s an industry thing. A brand promoter is well known in the industry for, promoting the product, but these people have a really tough time. They were sexually abused. They’re not treated with respect. Sometimes the uniforms are also quite disrespectful because they’ve got to wear short skirts and that type of attire. It wasn’t a very dignified profession and a lot of the people were women. Many of them were the breadwinners in their family.
[00:06:32] We set out to change this as part of our social impact initiative.
[00:06:37] Change like this, changing the whole ethos and dynamic and of a role like that takes leadership. It cannot be changed from the ground up. It has to come from the top down. And through that, we were able to change the scope of the role, change the uniforms. No more short skirts. No more tank tops. Respectable attire, education. Educating the brand promoter, the outlet owner, the pub owner, the restaurant owner about what the brand promoter’s role is. It’s to promote the product. Teaching the brand promoter, the outlet owners about harassment and abuse and educating the brand promoters: that’s not part of your job. You’re here to sell the product and only the product.
[00:07:23] What it created was a pool of young women, talented young women that we started to train and educate and change the nature of their role. It created a pool for us to actually draw on for young and new salespeople. So it started to give them a pipeline for their career. It changed their role. It changed the way they saw themselves. It gave the role respect, but moreover, it also made business sense. Because these brand promoters knew our product better than any salesperson and they could sell it. And to train them and to educate them and to bring them into the sales force was no brainer and it really worked well. And, the impact that it created was far reaching for the brand promoters, for their families and for us as an organization.
[00:08:15] Chared Verschuur (she/her): I can also imagine not just for them and their families and you as an organization, but for them personally in terms of dignity.
[00:08:25] Karen Daniels (she/her): Yes. It was amazing to witness the change and also the type of talent that we started to attract because the role became more meaningful and a dignified role and was seen different because even our own sales director, when asking him, “would you let your daughter be a brand promoter?” he’d say, “absolutely not”. And therefore , we had to change this perception of the brand promoter role, but it didn’t just end there.
[00:08:51] We took it further. We partnered with the UN and other organizations in Nigeria to continue the training and to establish a speak up line and a emergency system. If brand promoters found themselves in compromising situations, they could call a particular number and get help and make sure that there was always a means for them to get home, and then we started to cascade it across the industry and got other beverage companies to do the same. The effect in Nigeria was just astounding.
[00:09:22] Chared Verschuur (she/her): Now everyone wants to be a brand promoter.
[00:09:25] Karen Daniels (she/her): Yeah
[00:09:28] Chared Verschuur (she/her): It’s a really great example. For leaders who want to integrate social sustainability in their strategies. If it’s new to them, where should they start?
[00:09:36] Karen Daniels (she/her): Now that’s an interesting question because I think a lot of people are looking at that now. Social sustainability alongside environmental. It’s just grown in momentum.
[00:09:46] The first step would be understanding where they are now, understanding their current state and where their gaps are, both internally and externally, in terms of equity, social involvement in communities, et cetera, but looking internally first, understanding where their gaps are, looking externally in the communities in which they operate. Understanding how they impact those communities, how they impact human capital there and social capital and come up with a plan that they then build into their business planning and strategic processes and make it part of the strategy, part of their goals, part of their business objective. That’s the first step in integrating social sustainability into their business. It’s looking at your core business and where that impacts human capital and social capital and starting from there.
[00:10:40] Chared Verschuur (she/her): And what are some practical steps organizations can take to measure and improve inclusion and social impact in their organizations?
[00:10:49] Karen Daniels (she/her): So now you’ve got your objectives and you’ve set your goals. The next thing would be to set clear metrics the same as you would do for financial targets. Look at each objective, find a clear metric that you’d want to achieve and measure and build it into your business reporting cycle.
[00:11:08] So internally you could look at pay equity. You could look at engagement and belonging scores. You could look at your diversity scores.
[00:11:17] Externally, you could look at supplier diversity, community investment, and also environmental considerations when it comes to waste and impacting the environment, other than energy. Energy is spoken about quite a lot, and many companies are addressing the energy issue. But there’s a lot of other environmental factors that have a direct impact on the community and people.
[00:11:43] Chared Verschuur (she/her): If we’re going to use that example earlier, the brand promoters, can you share what the KPIs were or how you measure that?
[00:11:52] Karen Daniels (she/her): The first thing was we put in place a brand promoter policy. Setting out the rules of engagement. What a brand promoter should wear, how a brand promoter should work, time, access to emergency contacts, making sure that brand promoters had a safe means of getting home from very late events. So all of this was put into a policy.
[00:12:13] Then extracted from their policy some tangible things that we could measure, like the training. Harassment training was the first set of training that we did, and we ran the training company wide. So it wasn’t only for the brand promoters, but it was for our people themselves to understand what does harassment mean they could understand why we were doing this. So we did harassment training and we started to measure that to see how many countries had done training, how many brand promoters were trained, and then how many external customers, like our outlets, taverns and pubs, how many owners were also trained around harassment. That was the one.
[00:12:51] The other one was we recruited. The recruitment process of brand promoters, recruiting talented people and not only women, we included men as well. We had some targets on making it a more diverse team.
[00:13:06] Chared Verschuur (she/her): That was going to be my question, but you already answered it. Did you recruit men to be brand promoters?
[00:13:12] Karen Daniels (she/her): Yes. So we wanted to take the gender issue out of it. We took that sort of a stigma out of it being, oh, only women can go and do that. Men can also do it. That it’s not just women in short skirts. We had quite a lot of, young, men joining and loving it, the opportunity to be a brand promoter. So with brand promoters, it was a bit of a flip side where it was women-based and we had to get more men in. They were so proud of it.
[00:13:40] The uniforms were so beautiful and they were so proud to wear them. The women and the men had matching uniforms and you could choose as a promoter, whether you wanted to wear a skirt or whether you wanted to wear pants and they looked so smart. And when they did wear skirts, they were of a decent length and there was no connotation of the woman had to look sexy.
[00:14:01] That’s still like that in Nigeria and in a lot of our countries where we operated. And the trend started to increase. It’s not worldwide. No, this was just one initiative, but I think initiatives like that are so important because they have far reaching effects in that some of those women the breadwinners in their family, and they can feel comfortable in the work uniform because they are doing a job.
[00:14:26] Chared Verschuur (she/her): You also mentioned earlier that you set out to make a difference and not to want to be a leader. So how can team members advocate for inclusion and social sustainability if they’re not in leadership roles?
[00:14:40] Karen Daniels (she/her): That is really important to promote in organizations. The one way that can be done is to create informal networks to support diversity and social sustainability efforts. These informal networks can challenge exclusive practices in an organization because a lonely voice is not always listened to. You’re just seen as somebody who is negative or a troublemaker or something like that, but if you create these informal networks they helped people to have a voice, to speak up, and I’ve seen it in practice.
[00:15:17] One was about women in supply chain and getting more women involved in supply chain and creating this network around it. Informal network, asking people to join men and women to join this network. Men as advocates and mentors and sponsors. This network was started by just ordinary colleagues in the organization.
[00:15:37] There was another one around diversity, cultural diversity in the organization. A place for people from all different countries to share the challenges they face in a different country, how they can be supported, what the company could do to set them up for success.
[00:15:55] Those are the two networks that come to mind and they were quite effective as a forum to challenge exclusive practices, but also on the other hand, you could also look at if you in a more senior role, not necessarily leadership, you can also mentor others. You can help amplify diverse voices and ideas in meetings. You can help support others because once somebody feels supported, even by a colleague, they feel more confident.
[00:16:22] It talks a lot to the work that you do with belonging. Inclusiveness and belonging and engagement really helps to foster social sustainability in the workplace. And it does start with a sense of belonging.
[00:16:36] If an organization is trying to bring more of that into the culture of the organization and start embedding it into the fabric of who they are, you would see that more people would then be open to advocate for these types of initiatives. Where it isn’t, you wouldn’t find much of that happening, then those are the places that need it and in that situation, I would strongly advise for creating these informal networks because it’s a sort of a group that can take these ideas to management and to leadership and that’s when inclusive leadership comes in and to say we should listen to our people and try to start incorporating more inclusive practices in the way we do business on a daily basis.
[00:17:24] What trends in inclusive leadership and social sustainability are you most excited about?
[00:17:29] I think the biggest trend that I’ve already started seeing is the shift from compliance to impact where the companies that really are taking this on board and you find that they are the companies that are attracting the better talent. And they are the companies I think that do better from a profitability perspective as well.
[00:17:48] Karen Daniels (she/her): It’s not just a ticking the box exercise. It’s actually about the impact that they want to make. It’s authentic and it’s real and that I see happening more and more even smaller companies are saying, what can we do to start this journey of being a sustainable business?
[00:18:05] The other one is technology integration which can drive systemic change. Because when you have more advanced technology around this, like I was saying with Blue Earth, you have more advanced analytics, you have better feedback, have better reporting, and you can identify systemic barriers that you can start solving. With more integration and organizations, the impact could be more visible. If you really understand what is going on in your business, what is going on in your supply chains, and you can start putting initiatives in place to change it.
[00:18:38] Chared Verschuur (she/her): I often say that data, that’s their language in the boardroom. So that’s why it’s important that we have this data. So that’s also what you’re doing with Blue Earth. That’s what technology can enable.
[00:18:51] Karen Daniels (she/her): Technology is absolutely an enabler and we should be using it to make that impact and to make the change.
[00:18:57] Chared Verschuur (she/her): And one of those technologies that’s really hyped up is AI.
[00:19:04] Karen Daniels (she/her): AI can help us come up with these or identifying these barriers and helping to work with us to develop solutions. If you’re using it correctly, it can be a game changer for your organization. It’s the future, I would think, using AI responsibly, can create really sustainable organizations and organizations that are future proofing themselves.
[00:19:28] Chared Verschuur (she/her): I also agree with that. A lot of people are against AI, but AI is how you use it, right? So the impact that you can create is endless. What’s your vision for a future where businesses lead with equity and purpose?
[00:19:43] Karen Daniels (she/her): My vision is where businesses start to understand that sustainability is not a choice. It is our ticket to the future, because if we’re not building sustainable organizations and taking care of human capital and natural capital, there wouldn’t be anything left for the future. There wouldn’t be businesses and there wouldn’t be markets or businesses. So sustainability is the future.
[00:20:07] And my vision is that organizations can see this more, see how they are impacting and are impacted by natural capital and preserving that. And also how are they impacting human capital and how they need human capital and also start taking care, growing and developing human capital and making sure that they’re taking care of the communities in which they operate and sustaining those communities.
[00:20:33] Chared Verschuur (she/her): Totally agree. Thank you for that. Do you have anything else to add?
[00:20:37] Karen Daniels (she/her): No. And just to thank you for the opportunity to have this discussion with you that’s so close to my heart and that I’m so passionate about.
[00:20:43] Chared Verschuur (she/her): Thank you for your time. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of the Good Comms podcast. I hope you found our conversation with Karen insightful and inspiring. Karen’s perspective on inclusive leadership and social sustainability reminds us of the power of equity and belonging in shaping a better future for our organizations, our communities and beyond.
[00:21:05] If you’d like to learn more about Karen’s work, visit Ethical Edge Advisory or connect with her on LinkedIn. Don’t forget to share this episode with someone who might benefit from these ideas and let us know your thoughts by leaving a review or reaching out on LinkedIn or via chared@goodcomms.nl.
[00:21:24] Make sure to subscribe to the Good Comms Podcast for more conversations like this. Until next time, remember, inclusive leadership isn’t just an ideal, it’s a practice that starts with each of us. Thanks for listening. This is Chared Verschuur, podcasting for Good Comms.
— 04
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On global DEI with Dr. Rohini Anand
— 05
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On neurodiversity and 'kapwa' with Lana Jelenjev
— 06
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On authenticity and inclusive leadership with Prof. Hannes Leroy
— 07
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On social capital with Emma Colwill, Team Not Impossible
— 08
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On your own topic with you!